Modern Arnis vs Kombatan

[Malahini]

Kan någon berätta vad skillnaden mellan Modern Arnis och Kombatan Arnis är?

[Micke M]

Inte precis mitt område av FMA men Modern Arnis är väl Remy Presas system och Kombatan hans brors, Ernesto Presas, system. Vad jag kommer ihåg har de inte tränat identiskt före deras stilar grundades. Ex. tränade Remy Balintawak.

Micke

[oskar]

Historik: GM Ernesto Presas och GM Remy Presas tränade ursprungligen klassisk Arnis som dom lärde sig av sin far.

Senare utvecklade de vad som vi i dag kallar Modern Arnis där käppen ses som käpp istället för som i klassiska tekniker ett blad.

GM Remy flyttade till USA medans GM Ernesto stannade i Fillipinerna.

Vidare utvecklade GM Ernesto Mano Mano som är den obeväpnade delen av hans system.

Kombatan: Kombatan är namnet på GM Ernesto Presas hela system där ingår bl.a. Modern Arnis, Mano Mano, Dumo, Espada y Daga, Klassiska tekniker, Bangkao (Bo stav), Balisong osv...

Jag tror personiligen att namn ändringen kom av två skäl för att understryka att det inte bara rör sig om käpptekniker (då arnis betyder käpp på fillipinska) samt att skilja sig från alla varianter av arnis som poppat upp, dock bara min egen tolkning.

För mer info kolla på www.kombatan.com

[Micke M]

Arnis betyder väl inte käpp utan är en "filippinisering" av spanskans rustning,skydd (jfr svenskans harnesk)?

Micke

[jeff_lindqvist]

Exakt. "Arnis de mano" innebär ju "handens harnesk", så att säga.

[oskar]

"Arnis betyder väl inte käpp utan är en "filippinisering" av spanskans rustning,skydd (jfr svenskans harnesk)?"

Hur ordet Arnis ursprungligen uppstod kan jag inte svara på då jag inte är lingvist dock låter det som en trolig härledning, då spanskan har haft en stor påverkan på dom olika dialekterna (86 st tror jag) som pratas på Fillipinerna.

Vad jag dock vet är att i dag så används ordet Arnis för att ref. till käppen. Ex: "get one arnis" betyder hämta en käpp.

"Exakt. "Arnis de mano" innebär ju "handens harnesk", så att säga."

Nja, här vill jag dock insistera att det innebär hand & käpp tekniker inte handens rustning åtminstonde enligt GM E. Presas synvinkel, (frågade honom i dag), Och det var ju Modern Arnis vs Kombatan som tråden gällde så den är ju rätt relevant. Kan dock inte svara på vad andra mästare läser in i termen.

[Micke M]

Låter rätt typiskt avs. de filippinsk-indonesiska stilarna.
Det är sällan som orden används korrekt men vem bryr sig? Det enda viktiga är ju:
Kan jag träffa dig med mitt vapen utan att du träffar mig?
Kan man det så spelar det ju ingen roll ifall man kallar sin käpp gurka eller harnesk...

Micke

[Arnis_DeMano]

Jag såg Diter Knutell skriva om skillnaderna mellan MA och KOM, jag ska se om jag kan hitta det han skrev å posta det här...

Dieter says:I was with Ernesto from 1983 to 1993 (he ranked me 5th Dan) and with the Professor from 1994 until his death.
So my knowledge about Ernesto may be a little old, but I saw an exhibition from him about a 2 years ago and it was pretty much the same stuff I have learned.
But coming to the differences:
Ernesto put more emphasis on form and posture, having a proper stance and an upright position. A little more Karate like but not so stiff. Remy really never lost a word about stances. Anyway, one of the main differences I found was, that Ernesto concentrated much more on hitting, butting, striking and Abanicos and also disarmings, where Remy put much more emphasis on controlling, locking takedowns, pins and trappings. Everybody who ever was in his "fangs" knows what I am talking about. Thats why I am really happy to have learned under both. I got "the best of 2 worlds".
Ernesto teaches a little more vartiety of weapons, also Bo (long staff), or palmstick, Sai, Tonfa etc if you want (even Kendo) where Remy concentrated more on the singlestick and empty hands. Of course he also knew the other stuff and occasionally taught it, but when ha taught me, he stayed more within these areas. In the beginning of the 80ies Ernesto had only 3 Sinawalis (Single, Double and Reverse) and almost no drills. Neither empty hands, nor knife. Exept of his "Freestyle sparring" which is a kind of basic Tapi-Tapi. This seemed to have changed, so that he teaches a lot of back and forth drills that you use with interchanging weapons. Where as in a lot of Remys drills, there is a dominating, controlling person and not 2 people playingthe same game.
Ernesto differenciated also more between "Modern Arnis" and "classical Arnis".
A thing the we still do and it gives us sometimes problems, because Remy did not the same way (at least when he taught us).
The difference was, that in the classical styles like Hirada Batanguenia, Palis Palis, Figuer 8 etc, you could inerchange the stick for a machete. In Modern Arnis you could not, because in modern we try to catch (trap) the STICK of the opponent. Something I would never try with a sword. Modern had the modern approach, that in Germany or in the cities of the US, not everybody is wielding a large blade, therfore other techniques (like the catching) could be used. And the classical styles were the roots of the Modern Arnis, because in the Philippined the DO run around with their machetes, at least in the provinces.
One of the biggest differences though is, that Remy was lefthanded and , at least in the late 90ies, he handed this skill onto his students, in his Tapi-Tapi. I don´t say that Ernesto does not have left handed techniques (his son Jan-Jan is left handed and supposed to be really good) but he did not teach to everybody. Remy made all of his students do the right and the left hand in his Tapi-Tapi.
On a very personal note I think, that Remys Modern Arnis was a lot deeper, what really showed in the comparason of the Freestyle of Ernesto (which was very special to him and one should not show this to lower belts, because it was the "secret of the art"). But compared with the amount of techniques, their depth and how intricate and sophisticated they are in the Tapi Tapi, the Freestyle now seems quite shallow to me.
One last word. Remy was not only a Grandmaster, to me he was a Gand Master, also on a peronal level. He was caring and tried to make you learn and make you good. He was very sure aboutm himself and his position. I did not have this impression at all with Ernesto.

I hope that helped.
But please keep in mind, that this is a very personal view and the others might have had different experiences with both ot the Presas brothers.


Regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
__________________
http://www.abanico.de
ABANICO Video Productions
http://www.modern-arnis.de
Modern Arnis Germany